EFTA02656790

From: jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 10:50 PM To: Joscha Bach Subject: Re: watch the octupus, find its prey, is it =reative.? is it intelligent? are virus creatvie?=C2* finding new methods to infect the host. . hackers=C240 On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Joscha Bach wrote: It seems that much of what we call intelligence co=ld be described as detecting causal structure in a domain. Causality means=that you have a model that tells you how change of a condition will influe=ce the distribution of outcomes. Of course, crabs do that too, to an exten=. When I was in Munich, a patent lawyer challenged me =o come up with a definition of creativity from a machine learning perspect=ve. He has to judge the originality of inventions, and something that a do=ain expert can come up with "naturally" does not count as =n invention, even if it has never been done before. Lea=ning systems tend to move along gradients, and the "natural soluti=n" of the domain expert can be seen as an extrapolation of the sol=tion space along the known gradients, until an optimum is found. Creativit= seems to involve crossing discontinuities in the problem space, i.e. do m=re than follow the gradients. It is not magic, of course; you can use evol=tionary methods/Monte Carlo etc., but you find that many domain experts ar= capable without being creative. Can we mea=ure the ability of different animals for creativity? <=iV> Am Mar 6, 2017 um 3:23 PM schri=b Jeffrey E <mailto:jeevacation@gmail.com» wrote: So you don't think th=t practical intelligence is the ability to build arbitrary prosthetics? I agree that humans share an important similarity wi=h cells, i.e. they have mechanisms that suppress individual competition wh=n it conflicts too much with group selection. Without such mechanisms, gro=p selection fails, because within each group, defectors have a local advan=age. The simplest mechanism to enforce cooperatio= is reputation, but it works only when others are looking, and manage to k=ep tallies. To do better than that, evolution has to breed a virtual next =evel regulator into the individual, which may be your missing "top do=n for humans". A system of norms and taboos, for instance a religi=n or ideology that people pick up from their environment. </=iv> Individuals can decide, but in social contexts, the utility of dec=sions is given by how well we understand the constraints under which we op=rate. EFTA_R1_01902585 EFTA02656790 =m Mar 6, 2017 um 10:50 AM schrieb Jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:jeevaca=ion@gmail.com»: no, i disagree , the spaceship i= only an advanced prostthetic.. . not interesting at all. . =C2* interesting is we have no idea what the top down for humans is. ilf>=A0 . collective . group behavior, I dont see any differnce =C2Obetween humans and cells , just a different layer of the =ame. . regulatory systems. action s feedbacks and=" learning " ,. all with no goal . the goals are il=usions.. that the indiv thinks they decide. like the soldier ant t=at is recapitualted to a garbage ant if the garbage ants are wiped out. =C2110 the soldier ant thinks it made the decsion. . Q=A0 On Mon, =ar 6, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Joscha Bac rote: Exactly! Sensors like that are often one of these solution that get =ou 80% of the way with 20% of the effort. Except that minds that take 15 y=ars to train are o dramatically more expensive that almost no species can =fford them (but they end up getting you to the moon, which no prosthesis c=n). <mailto:jeevacation@gmail.c=m»: guage widith of hole.=C24> Am Mar 6, 2=17 um 7:08 AM schrieb Jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com they may have physical prothesitcs =C240 like cat whiskers. to enable it to On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 8:03 PM, Joscha Bach ote: Most animals don=#39;t have a self model, probably because they don't have complex enou=h brains or long enough training phases (childhoods) to do meta-regulation= > On Mar 5, 2017, at 16:48, jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:jeevacation=gmail.com» wrote: > Law of large numbers is all that is needed > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 5:46 PM Joscha Bac wrote: > I am not sure how to relate that to game theory; you may be able to ge= that without evolutionary competition. However, game theory is probably t=e way to explain how we evolve submission to norms beyond indirect recipro=ity. 2 EFTA_R1_01902586 EFTA02656791 > On Mar 5, 2017, at 12:12, jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:jeevac=tion@gmail.com> wrote: > > > i wonder in game theory what advantage it gives. . > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Joscha Bach wr=te: > absolutely. so are truth and meaning > > > Am 05.03.2017 um 11:52 schrieb jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:j=evacation@gmail.com»: > > >» i is a mental construct that gives an evolutionary adva=tage , . > » > » On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Joscha Bach wrote: > » I believe that I think, but am "I" the agent of thi=king? »> »> »> > » »> > >» On Mar 5, 2017, at 08:34, jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> w=ote: > » > >>> I sugggest the expression really shoul= be "I think, therefore I believe I am" »» »» »» > » > -- > » > please note > >» The information contained in this communication is > >» confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may > >» constitute inside information, and is intended only for<=r> >>> the use of the addressee. It is the property of >>».IEE > >» Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this > >» communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited=br> > >» and may be unlawful. If you have received this > >» communication in error, please notify us immediately byar> > >» return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:jeevacat=on@gmail.com> , and > >» destroy this communication and all copies thereof, > >» including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserve= »> > » > » »> »> > » -- > » please note > » The information contained in this communication is > » confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may 3 EFTA_R1_01902587 EFTA02656792 > » constitute inside information, and is intended only for > » the use of the addressee. It is the property of >>> JEE >» Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this >» communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited >» and may be unlawful. If you have received this > » communication in error, please notify us immediately by > » return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:jeevacation@g=ail.com> , and > » destroy this communication and all copies thereof, >» including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved > > > > > > > > > > please note > The information contained in this communication is > confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may > constitute inside information, and is intended only for > the use of the addressee. It is the property of > > JEE » Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this > communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited > and may be unlawful. If you have received this » communication in error, please notify us immediately by » return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:jeevacation@gmail=com> , and » destroy this communication and all copies thereof, » including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved > -- > please note > The information contained in this communication is > confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may > constitute inside information, and is intended only for > the use of the addressee. It is the property of > JEE > Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this > communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited > and may be unlawful. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately by > return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:jeevacation@gmail.com> , and > destroy this communication and all copies thereof, > including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved 4 EFTA_R1_01902588 EFTA02656793 =C24> please note The information contained in this co=munication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may c=nstitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the ad=ressee. It is the property of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or co=ying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibitedand may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error,=please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com</=>, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including =11 attachments. copyright -all rights reserved please note The=information contained in this communication is confidential, may be att=rney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is inten=ed only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE U=authorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part=thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have receive= this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return=e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:jeevacation@gmail.com> , and destroy this communication and al= copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reser=ed =C24> please note The information contained in this communic=tion is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constit=te inside information, and is intended only for 5 EFTA_R1_01902589 EFTA02656794 the use of the addresse=. It is the property of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying =f this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and =ay be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, pleas= notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com, ander>destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all atta=hments. copyright -all rights reserved plea=e note The information contained in this communication is confi=ential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside inform=tion, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the prop=rty of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this commun=cation or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. =f you have received this communication in error, please notify us immed=ately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com <mailtcrjeevacation@gm=il.com> , and destroy this c=mmunication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyrigh= -all rights reserved 6 EFTA_R1_01902590 EFTA02656795